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+--- Thread: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard (/showthread.php?tid=72)
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - admin - 10-16-2019
Well I've typed that same sentence until my fingers ache and it's often to no avail but hopefully others learn by reading about it.
Even sadder is that the cat is likely not tested for HCM since the breeder has misled her on so may other things.
About all you can do is lead a horse to water...
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - McKeu - 10-17-2019
We do have a very interesting ruling in WCF, but our judges are very, very careful in using it, and I have not seen it happen yet:
If you bring a non-pedigree cat in front of the judges and three(!) WCF judges unanimously find that the cat is from a certain breed, then it gets a special WCF pedigree.
It can, however, as far as I know, not be used for breeding, only for showing.
Of course it would still have to follow the WCF breed standards and that automatically excludes Sepia, Mink and any solids for Ragdolls.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - admin - 10-17-2019
Interesting fact about the WCF. I'd think that breeders would find it off putting to have to compete against such a cat.
The same breeder I quoted yesterday came back with this response to Jan:
" I think we are saying the same thing. And in all honesty, I very little knowledge regarding Ragdolls and their history, so I will not argue that fact. So, is he saying that I can take a registered Ragdoll, breed it with a registered Munchkin, register the litter and the kittens will then be registered as Ragdolls because that is the breed i put them under? So those shortlegged ragdolls can be sold as registered Ragdolls with an SBT number? I dont think so...As soon as you use a non allowable outcross, the registration number signifies that, and the pedigree signifies that. And perhaps you missed the part where I was questioning the SBT registration number. Yes, some breeds do have allowable outcrosses, and the registration number also signifies that. So again, I think we are basically saying same thing, just in different ways. And yes, of course, one can have a SBT purebred cat that is far from standard."
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - JanH - 10-17-2019
You do not have an SBT number until 3 generations from the outcross, but you do have TICA registration papers and can breed down to an SBT if you want. In cats, you can go three generation in about 3 years.
TICA has a similar rule to WCF. However, doing that to a breed as popular as Ragdolls is not very likely. They do not want Ragdoll registrations to switch over to CFA.
You have to understand that the cat fancy has a hard time financially and some of these rules are to generate revenue, a necessary consideration for them.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - admin - 10-17-2019
Well it certainly does explain why there is so much confusion about the unaccepted variants. The registry process seems to hinge entirely on the integrity, (or lack thereof in some), of the breeders, which also explains why so many have continued to breed with disregard for the breed standard. The lesson I take away is that people should do extreme diligence when vetting a breeder and stick with those who breed to the breed standard and show their cats as well as offer pedigree papers and have a well known reputable reputation.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - JanH - 10-17-2019
Of course it is largely an honors system. It is not easy for an organization to distinguish between a bad or unlucky breeder and a fraudster. It is also too expensive to try some kind of genetic testing to prove parentage, including the challenge of getting the accurate genetics of the parents.
You are right. The important factor is potential homes being educated and wary. However, there are so many diligent and good breeders that folks should not be discouraged about finding one for their kitten.
Picking the breeder is the most important step in the process.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - admin - 10-17-2019
All I can say is that you'd only need to spend an hour on Facebook to see how many poor breeders there are out there. I feel sorry for anyone who goes there for breeder recommendations and many people do. I've only found one group that supports traditional breeders exclusively and their membership is 1/20th the size of the large ones. It is apparent that backyard breeders have found a way to market cats there that don't even come close to the breed standard and turn hefty profits. The 2 most offensive groups just terminate your membership as soon as you even discuss the breed standard: Ragdoll Cat Owners and Ragdoll Cat Lovers USA, ( I can't recall which one it is but I did note that an admin of one of the groups is a breeder of unaccepted variants so I can see why she has a vested interest in quashing any good information on the subject) . It appears to me that they were set up with the objective of promoting poor breeders and breeding practices and each have membership approaching 20,000 members ...
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - JanH - 10-17-2019
The silver lining is that great breeders seem to have no trouble placing all of their kittens and have waiting lists.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - McKeu - 10-18-2019
Not so easy as a starting out breeder, having to compete against all those "exclusive boutique" backyard breeders with their cheap cats with no pedigrees. Especially, if buyers are told the pedigree makes the cat so expensive from real breeders. That is just laughable. It costs you probably 20 bucks and there is no reason for not getting one.
And since a whole load of people cannot tell the difference between a Ragdoll and any other pointed cat, it is like fighting windmills.
It is a lot of educating and you don't make many friends with that.
(10-17-2019, 09:46 AM)admin Wrote: Interesting fact about the WCF. I'd think that breeders would find it off putting to have to compete against such a cat.
The same breeder I quoted yesterday came back with this response to Jan:
" I think we are saying the same thing. And in all honesty, I very little knowledge regarding Ragdolls and their history, so I will not argue that fact. So, is he saying that I can take a registered Ragdoll, breed it with a registered Munchkin, register the litter and the kittens will then be registered as Ragdolls because that is the breed i put them under? So those shortlegged ragdolls can be sold as registered Ragdolls with an SBT number? I dont think so...As soon as you use a non allowable outcross, the registration number signifies that, and the pedigree signifies that. And perhaps you missed the part where I was questioning the SBT registration number. Yes, some breeds do have allowable outcrosses, and the registration number also signifies that. So again, I think we are basically saying same thing, just in different ways. And yes, of course, one can have a SBT purebred cat that is far from standard."
You can get Munchkins from breeding a Munchkin with a Ragdoll, but you cannot get Ragdolls. At least according to WCF. A Ragdoll requires both parents to be Ragdolls at this point in time. No exceptions.
And no judge will declare a non-pedigree cat a Ragdoll. That is just too sensitive a topic to touch and also too hard to tell sometimes.
Our mentors, for example, are the first real breeders of Lambkins in Europe. They still have a hard time with the WCF registration, due to the "experimental" tag, although it was already recognized at an earlier point in time.
But the current heads of WCF change their minds on a daily basis anyways. Time for a change in leadership. They are dying out anyway, considering their age.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - MUM_of_FLUFFY - 12-02-2019
(10-13-2019, 03:20 PM)admin Wrote: Eloquently put as usual. Hopefully your words hit home.
They certainly hit home for me. I'm so happy to be part of this forum and so grateful for the input of senior members.
I love it here...
