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+--- Thread: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard (/showthread.php?tid=72)
Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - NatsFan78 - 07-19-2019
I have read several posts on social media by people claiming their sepia/mink/solid cat is a registered purebred ragdoll from a premier cattery. How are these cats being registered as ragdolls when they do not meet the breed standard? I have also read comments that breed standard doesn’t even matter anyway unless you want to show the cat. When I first started looking for a breeder I didn’t think it mattered if the cat was a mink, I just figured it was a little different color no big deal. After thinking about it I have changed my mind. To get these different coat and eye colors they have to outcross the ragdoll with another breed. I believe that brings up two concerns, one immediate and one long term. In the short term, some of these owners are confused and disappointed because they paid a lot of money for their rare ragdoll but it has little to none of the ragdoll characteristics. The biggest concern to me is the long term affect on the breed. If the ragdoll keeps being outcrossed to produce the mink/sepia/solid colors then I am concerned the wonderful characteristics of this breed will be lost not to mention the possibility of bringing in genetic health issues from the other breeds. I don’t understand how these cats that are not meeting breed standard are being registered as purebred ragdolls. No wonder there is so much misinformation out there on them.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - JanH - 07-19-2019
These are TICA registrations. In TICA a breeder can register WITH a breed any cat for whom ONE parent is registered with the breed. TICA was created to give maximum freedom to individual breeders. In TICA, being able to show for championship and the Breed standard are the methods the association defines what is included in the breed.
One has to understand the TICA rules and what they mean and do not mean to understand these claims.
In TICA, an individual breeder acting alone can take one cat registered as a Ragdoll, breed it to ANYTHING and register the kittens with the Ragdolls, no matter how little the kittens are like a Ragdoll. If that is the kind of "Ragdoll" someone wants, so be it.
(The better term than "purebred" is "pedigreed." The issue is not purity of blood, but disclosure of parentage in the pedigree.)
Ask these folks WHY these cats intentionally do not meet the breed standard. So, do they not have Ragdolls or do they just have "bad" examples.
The breed standard matters beyond showing because it is the standard agreed by the breeders as a group to which the kittens are intended to be bred. Otherwise, one intentionally has an ABC Cattery Ragdoll and XYZ Cattery Ragdoll and ... . That is not a breed. That is what some individual breeder has decided to do and seems like breeding moggies. It is contrary to the idea of the cat fancy. Breeding pedigreed cats to an agreed breed standard where there is a greater chance of the kitten you get meeting your expectations.
Is a short legged cat registered with the Ragdolls a Ragdoll? Is a short coated Ragdoll registered with the Ragdolls a Ragdoll? Is the cat who is exactly like a Persian registered with the Ragdolls a Ragdoll? Not to me.
As for "premier cattery," what do they mean? At least one knows it is a cattery that ignores the breed standard in at least one important respect. How many other ways have they taken their own path.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - NatsFan78 - 07-20-2019
I can’t understand why so many are willing to pay a ton of money for a cat they know doesn’t meet the breed standard. As you said, if that is what they want so be it. I feel really bad for those who paid for a “rare” ragdoll not knowing it doesn’t meet the standard and is not really a ragdoll. In my opinion if the breeder strays from standard and outcrosses like that you are paying a lot of money for a mixed breed. I wish TICA would allow the cats to be registered but make it clear on the registration papers the cat is not a full ragdoll.
I personally would be concerned about what other practices the breeders are doing. I think if you are trying to preserve the health and characteristics of the ragdoll as a breeder your goal would be to produce healthy kittens that fit the standard. If they are passing sepia/mink/solid kittens off as a rare, more expensive type of ragdoll they are clearly not concerned with that.
I have read posts from people who are completely happy with their nonstandard but a huge number of them make comments about their cat not fitting with the breed characteristics. Many are frustrated and want to know why their cat seems to be the opposite of what they are expecting from a ragdoll. I feel awful for the ones who did not know. I think when you outcross to gain a different coat color you run the risk of losing the amazing personality that the ragdoll is known for.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - Tikismom - 07-20-2019
It's a sad shame but there are many "breeders" who see an opportunity to cut corners and make a lot of money on the backs of the unknowing. I've often heard it said that good breeders are lucky to break even and this is not a money making venture for them but a passion.
Sadly the only way to stop backyard breeders is to educate people where you can and unfortunately that will get you kicked out of most places on the internet. (Which doesn't bother me, I've been thrown out of better places! ;-))
Case in point: This morning I read a post on Facebook from a woman who wonders why her 9 WEEK OLD kitten is urinating on her bed. The "breeder", (who releases her kittens WAY too early for them to be well socialized and you know; know how to use the litter box), told her to put the kitten in the box and scratch her paws on the litter. The kitten likely isn't spayed either because that would cut into profit. It's appalling.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - JanH - 07-20-2019
The most likely reasons a newcomer kitten uses the bed is that there is a UTI or that the kitten decides not to leave the "safety" of the bed in time to get to the litterbox. Have a litterbox right by the bed. Some high loft bedding may be a target as well, since it may feel like mom's cleaning and stimulate the urination. Kittens tend to be using the litter reliably by 8 weeks. It is desirable to keep kittens with mom and littermates until about 12 weeks is for general socialization. They will very likely scratch a post and use the litterbox well before that. ; ) However, more experience may may mistakes less likely because of habits established to do so and less fear of the unknown of a new place.
Not being spayed should not be a factor in a kitten so young because territorial spraying tends not to happen until sexual maturity.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - Smudge's Mom - 07-21-2019
Quote:(The better term than "purebred" is "pedigreed." The issue is not purity of blood, but disclosure of parentage in the pedigree.)I have always liked the term "poorbred"
This is what I don't understand: if they like the Ragdoll personality, size, coat type, etc. but find the colors boring, why aren't they breeding RagaMuffins? All colors and combinations are acceptable, from the classic pointed to the Pooka.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - NatsFan78 - 07-21-2019
(07-21-2019, 02:32 PM)Smudge\s Mom Wrote:Quote:(The better term than "purebred" is "pedigreed." The issue is not purity of blood, but disclosure of parentage in the pedigree.)I have always liked the term "poorbred"
This is what I don't understand: if they like the Ragdoll personality, size, coat type, etc. but find the colors boring, why aren't they breeding RagaMuffins? All colors and combinations are acceptable, from the classic pointed to the Pooka.
To me it seems like coat and eye colors are the only major differences between RagaMuffins and Ragdolls. I’m sure there is more to it but I agree, if a person doesn’t want the breed standard then why get a Ragdoll at all? Why not find a breed that fits what they are looking for? I don’t mean that to be rude I am just genuinely curious.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - NatsFan78 - 07-25-2019
The sepia, mink, and solids seem like they would better fit the description of a RagaMuffin than Ragdoll. What is the difference? I know the RagaMuffin was developed from the original Ragdoll line.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - Smudge's Mom - 07-25-2019
From what I understand, when the RagaMuffin breeders went to CFA and TICA for acceptance, they were told that they had to make a few physical changes so the breeds would be significantly different. Therefore, the Muffins has walnut shaped eyes...the Ragdoll has almond shaped eyes. The Muffin's body is more rectangular...basically the same width at the shoulders as at the hips. The Doll is more triangular...narrower at the shoulders, wide through the butt area. The Muffin's coat may be a bit shorter and less poofy, but that may just be my personal perception. Whatever the physical differences are, however, they pale in light of the similarities of personality and "wonderfulness" of both breeds.
RE: Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard - NatsFan78 - 07-25-2019
Thank you for the explanation. So would that mean the sepia, mink, and solid cats would technically be RagaMuffins instead of Ragdolls? It seems the personalities are the same just the eyes and coats are different.