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Finding a breeder
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RE: Hello
NatsFan78 > 06-18-2019, 05:19 PM
(06-18-2019, 03:10 PM)JanH Wrote: I did not access her Facebook materials. The cattery policies she mentions seem good. I do not know the lines she uses, since one would have to see the full registered names of the cats or some discussion of her mentors. I also did not note how long she has been breeding. Perhaps TM will see the Facebook materials and have some input. I did not see red flags in what is in this string. The prices seem low, but responsible breeders sometimes do that, particularly in some areas.
I do not approve of non-refundable deposits, although some do. (That it is refundable here is not noted.) My feeling is that I do not want a kitten of ours to go to a home that is taking the kitten with loss of deposit being a factor and, although disruptive, moving down the waiting list for a fully satisfied home should not be an issue for a popular breeder. In addition, I can reject a candidate for a kitten at any time, including at the last minute, and the prospect should have the same flexibility.
All of the breeders I have looked at require a non refundable deposit. I assumed everyone did that. Thank you Jan.
(06-18-2019, 04:57 PM)Codysmom Wrote: Welcome Michele so glad you could join us and as has been said this is a great place to learn about Ragdolls and .
I could see the link and the breeder's cattery is called "Noble Rags" she also does mention the following, which might be worth noting:
We are a small in-home Ragdoll kitten breeder with champion lines. We also have rare Chocolates, Lilacs, Minks, Sepias and Lynx. Some of our cats can be traced back to the Original five Ragdolls.
I couldn't see anywhere whether the kittens are spayed/neutered before you get them or what age they are before letting them go.
Perhaps one of the breeders on the forum have heard of her and can advise you.
Wishing you everything of the best in your search for a kitten, they are an amazing breed and it's worth waiting for the right one. You won't regret it.
She does require them to be spayed/neutered before the kitten goes home. The kittens born June 1 she said will go home in August. So minks and sepias should be avoided? Does that mean she doesn’t have full ragdolls? I am still trying to learn. Thank you so much. -
RE: Hello
Tikismom > 06-18-2019, 05:52 PM
I see that on her FB page too. It's also a bit concerning that she markets them as rare because there are backyard breeders out there charging more for these unaccepted variants. Technically this "rarity" is accurate because they are not Ragdolls and so are avoided by reputable breeders. TICA will register any cat with just one registered parent,(the other could be an alley cat) but CFA will not. I see that she used to belong to CFA but appears not to now.
I'm not sure how you would go about asking her about this without alienating her but perhaps just asking for who mentored her, how long she's been breeding and more information on the registered parents like their names and more specifically the champions that they are descended from would reveal more.
As an aside, our Edie who's a member here has lovely cats and is in North Carolina:
http://www.raggymay.com/
She may even have heard of Noblerags or be able to recommend someone near you if she doesn't have kittens if you'd like to PM her. -
RE: Hello
NatsFan78 > 06-18-2019, 06:28 PM
I sent her a message and asked the questions you suggested. She read it 15 minutes ago so hopefully she will write back soon. If she does I will post her response. I will message the breeder you suggested. Thank you for your help! -
RE: Hello
JanH > 06-18-2019, 06:29 PM
Minks (cats with a pointed gene and a sepia gene) and sepias (solids who have two sepia genes) are unaccepted variants in Ragdolls. If you want a breeder who breeds them in a breed perhaps closest to Ragdolls, then consider a Ragamuffin. TICA registration rules allow these cats to be registered with the Ragdolls (or other breed) in order to avoid paper hanging (false parentage in the registration) and to allow breeder experimentation. A breeder should have significant experience and success in breeding the breed as it is before undertaking a breeding program designed to change it. I do not know if this breeder has earned that "right." In fact, these particular variants make it more difficult to breed the Ragdoll to the physical standard because they are "dirty" pointed cats with "bad" Ragdoll eye color. It is hard to breed these cats and still have the eye to breed toward the breed standard in the accepted cats.
I believe she wrote that she had only one male. Unless he is a mink or sepia, she cannot have sepias. If he is a mink, she can have mink kittens in any litter and if he is sepia, she will have NO pointed Ragdolls. -
RE: Hello
NatsFan78 > 06-18-2019, 07:02 PM
I went back and looked at this new litter she has. The male is a chocolate mitten boy and the female is a blue tortie pointed mitted. Thank you for explaining. If I am understanding then does that mean a RagaMuffin is very similar to a Ragdoll except with different eye and color variants? I really want to adopt a Ragdoll but I want to make sure it is a healthy purebred and not a very expensive runner up so to speak. Thank you again. -
RE: Hello
JanH > 06-18-2019, 07:35 PM
Chocolates and reds (including torties) are accepted variants.
Some history. Ann Baker created the breed of blue eyed pointed cats out of random bred cats in her neighborhood. She was always at war with the cat fancy. Almost immediately, she placed breeding Ragdolls with the Daytons of Blossom Time cattery. The Daytons and some other early breeders started the move of the breed into cat fancy acceptance and bred to cat fancy standards. Ann started her own captive group, IRCA (International Ragdoll Cat Association). The car fancy branch was very successful and cat fancy Ragdolls became very popular and became generally recognized. At the same time, IRCA Ragdoll breeders continued under Ann's tight control. In later years she introduced solids and minks into the IRCA group. Ann had promised to give IRCA breeders greater control. Earlier IRCA breeders broke away and joined the cat fancy group, particularly at the time of the creation of TICA. However, later breeders who had solids and minks were not acceptable to the cat fancy breeders, who were committed to the blue eyed pointed cats only. When Ann did not allow greater participation, a group broke off, renamed their cats, including solids and minks, Ragamuffins and adjusted the breed standard to be more Persian like.
So, Ragdolls have a common origin with Ragamuffins, but Ragamuffins have outcrosses related to solids and minks and are subject to Ann's later breeding practices.
SM has had both a Ragamuffin and a Ragdoll and she may give you some ideas. However, the sample size is small. ; )
If you want a Ragdoll, my recommendation is to find a responsible, traditionalist Ragdoll breeder -- like Edie. -
RE: Hello
NatsFan78 > 06-18-2019, 08:06 PM
Thank you so much Jan, that is the best explanation I have read. I have messaged with Edie and will be talking with her tomorrow. After asking the other breeder questions about her mentor and more specific questions about her cats she has stopped responding. -
RE: Hello
Tikismom > 06-18-2019, 09:34 PM
That's quite telling. I'm glad that you're in touch with Edie. -
RE: Hello
NatsFan78 > 06-19-2019, 04:54 AM
She had been responding pretty quickly to all my questions. I’m not sure if I offended her or if she just didn’t want to answer. Either way I am excited to talk with Edie later today. Thank you. -
RE: Hello
Codysmom > 06-19-2019, 07:10 AM
(06-19-2019, 04:54 AM)Chelle78 Wrote: She had been responding pretty quickly to all my questions. I’m not sure if I offended her or if she just didn’t want to answer. Either way I am excited to talk with Edie later today. Thank you.
I'm so happy for you that you're in contact with Edie, she's a wonderful breeder and will definitely give you good advice and can point you in the right direction if you don't get a kitten from her.
Unfortunately there is a lot of confusion out there about Ragdolls with loads of misleading information, many are so confused about the breed. You've come to the right place to learn.